Wednesday, May 16, 2018

Mark Cabot Seems like Canada loves to support corporate welfare.. https://www.nationalobserver.com/.../are-irvings-canadas...

On the subject of climate change, Branson said he could relate to Alberta’s energy decision-makers who are grappling with how to do what’s best for the industry without hurting the environment.

At a time when Alberta’s energy industry is facing significant challenges, British billionaire Sir Richard Branson says innovation, entrepreneurial spirit and a social...
CALGARYHERALD.COM
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Julie Ali Maybe also encourage the oil and gas industry to take care of it's own liabilities without taxpayer subsidy.
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Bill Watson What liabilities and taxpayer subsidy?
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THEGLOBEANDMAIL.COM
Estimated cleanup costs for Alberta’s mines jumps to $23.2-billion

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Matt Torkelson We should quit sending equalization payments to Ontaria and we'd be swell.
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Julie Ali $235 million for orphan well loan plus $30 million as free cash. http://www.cbc.ca/.../orphan-wells-notley-announcement...Manage
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CBC.CA
Alberta offers $235M loan to clean up orphan wells | CBC News

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Julie Ali Matt Torkelson I don't know about that. I think we're getting money back now that we're in deep dish recession which will last in my opinion for the next decade or so. I'm guessing that the subsidy of the industry will also continue. But there you go. Will accept jobs for taxpayer dollars in a so called free market.
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Shane Macallan Julie Ali you are confusing subsidies with cleanup costs, which you are further conflating into one problem by confusing oilsands mining reclamation with conventional oil well reclamation.
For example, the oil and gas industry do not get subsidies, the
y get incentives, which are offered to all companies regardless of their product. Bombardier gets whatever you call that thing. Wind and solar get subsidies, without which they could not exist. As far as reclamation goes, conventional oil has an established fund which is financed by present companies when they enter the market. Since they have a gazillion orphaned wells to reclaim, most of them historic bankruptcies, they have big money problems. On the other hand these problems get constant attention from the media and although it may seem like little progress is made in fact steady regular clean up occurs all the time. Oil sands mining is entirely different, since reclamation is mandatory, by law, and the companies are responsible for their own reclamation. Mining itself occurs only in about 1% of the total oilsands area because the oil is too deep to mine in the rest of the area. The rest extracts oil through processes like in situ SAGD operations which scarcely disturb the surface at all. There is one, and only one, mining op that has entered the public cleanup arena, due to a mine that failed before it even got started, and the conventional cleanup authority says it can handle this particular case without problem.

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Lisa O'Connor Matt Torkelson we are not sending equalization payments to Ontario. You desperately need to understand how Federal tax is collected and dispersed, because comments like these just look ridiculous. It’s all online, directly at the source.
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Lisa O'Connor Shane Macallan there’s also the odd bail out, such as Precision in 09...(330 million fixes a lot of school roofs).
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Julie Ali Shane Macallan Well as far as I am concerned the giving of $30 million is a gift in the orphan well program. That sort of gift was done by the Stelmach as well in a prior bust. Just because other companies get similar "incentives" doesn't seem to make me feel any better about tax dollars used to ensure profits of industry. We have a free market. These companies don't need taxpayer dollars to be competitive. They make profits. So why do we have these "incentives" which appear to be subsidies to me? I'd say to make sure they do make profits which then raises the question what would they be doing without our "incentives" ? Would they be out of business?
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Julie Ali Shane Macallan I think also that the orphan well program liabilities problem have not been resolved and that we will be on the hook as the Redwater decision implies. What is ironic to me is that the AER which is responsible for this mess is now arguing before the Supreme Court that it is not their fault that they set up the system to fail: https://globalnews.ca/.../redwater-ruling-before-supreme.../Manage
Alberta Energy Regulator argues Redwater ruling before the Supreme Court
GLOBALNEWS.CA|BY 630 CHED
Alberta Energy Regulator argues Redwater ruling before the Supreme Court

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Julie Ali Shane Macallan As for the steady clean up story, I beg to differ. If the Auditor General of Alberta has stated that the costs don't match the requirements that's good enough for me that the industry is NOT meeting it's requirements. I also doubt that the industry will reclaim the land it is messing with now because the political parties are pretty much subserviant to the industry as has been proven with the transformation of the NDP into the NDPCs. https://www.oag.ab.ca/.../OAG%20Report%20July%202015.pdf In the event that a mine operator cannot fulfill its reclamation obligations, and no other private operator assumes the liability, the province may have to pay a potentially substantial cost for this work to be completed. Thus, a robust and responsive system to calculate and collect security from mine operators is essential.
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Julie Ali Shane Macallan Also I am not in favor of any industry getting these "incentives". Small business owners have to make do without this sort of taxpayer helps. Why do we to pay for the big business costs?
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Shane Macallan Julie Ali What you "think" and reality are two different things. Just because you think you understand the oil business and how subsidies operate doesn't actually mean you do. The 30 million to which you refer, was melodramatic theatre for Premier Notley when she was trying to make points with the electorate and to deflect from some other unpopular thing she had done. However, running to Ottawa, hat in hand, and begging the feds for a handout did nothing to improve her credibility and merely highlighted how little she herself understands either business itself or the oil business in particular. All your "mights" and "maybes" are still only a potential part of a future that people like to pretend they can predict.
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Julie Ali Shane Macallan Thank you for your evaluation of my understanding of the theatre that is ongoing in Alberta. I appreciate it. $30 million by the Notley and by the Stelmach represent taxpayer dollars that are being used to bail out the industry. I don't think we need to understand the business completely as apparently you do to make our own opinions on these issues. I've read the audits and I have come to my conclusions that we will be paying out for the liabilities of the industry. If you have factual information to offer this would be helpful.
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Shane Macallan Julie Ali you can do your own research. But getting 30 million dollars from the PM, while front page news and somewhat entertaining, is hardly going to "bail out an industry". It might, possibly, be enough to reclaim one abandoned lease. How you arrive at the conclusion that we will will pay for the "liabilities of the industry" must be fascinating. Alberta has sent over 200 BILLION DOLLARS eastwards, thanks to taxes and royalties from oil and gas. This predates the arrival of the NDP government. Since then Alberta has undergone 6 credit downgrades and a letter of warning from the federal watchdog to restrain spending. Even the U of C School of Public Policy thought it prudent to try and assist by publishing a paper aimed at getting spending under control, but even so Alberta now finds itself demoted from a top ten investment jurisdiction to something like forty-something on the list, and has an unprecedented debt with the interest alone topping one billion dollars. The same sort of future faces wind and solar farms, as the Premier was asked to include reclamation costs with their startup and she declined.
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Julie Ali Shane Macallan I've done my research. Of course there are benefits to the oil and gas industry. I just feel we should not ignore the liabilities as well as impacts to some citizens. You are quoting a U of C school which is known to be rather one sided in it's views. The NDP government is no different than the PC government in it's abject subjugation to the oil and gas industry. The increased debt that is present will continue with the UCP folks unless of course there is a miracle and a war happens so that the price of oil goes up. The NDP folks--aren't in my opinion responsible for the current mess because they have only been here less than 4 years; the PCs have the biggest responsibility for the mess Alberta is in. Poor oversight. Decreased returns for the oil and gas resources. A Tapcal Trust fund with unknown donors who may have got lots of returns for their donations. A history of failed investments in the diversification area with some documented poor decisions as per the Auditor General of Alberta. Certainly the NDP folks have not improved the governance of the province but at least they are no worse than the PCs. I don't see the UCP folks being any better and certainly we will have increased debt because revenue will not be increasing any time soon. The investments in the green sector won't be of any use in my opinion and electricity costs will be going up once the cap is over so really the UCP will have a big mess to deal with just as the NDP had a big mess to deal with. The oil and gas industry is earning profits or it would not be in Alberta. If they aren't able to manage, I'm guessing they will depart. Either way, in my opinion, the NDP or the UCP will both be useless in the ongoing recession in Alberta.
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Mark Cabot Seems like Canada loves to support corporate welfare.. https://www.nationalobserver.com/.../are-irvings-canadas...Manage
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NATIONALOBSERVER.COM
Are the Irvings Canada's biggest corporate welfare bums?

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Julie Ali Mark Cabot I've the feeling that all political parties are the same right now. It's interesting to see that we have no representation of worth and that the public is on the hook always.
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